'Aging is a wondrous thing': an interview with Allica Takarano (ALI PROJECT) and Kaie (Triple Fortune)

'Nightmare Infection' (Kyōmu densen) single cover, 2012  | source

Allica Takarano (宝野アリカ), the vocalist and lyricist of the musical duo ALI PROJECT, gave an interview for CINRA in 2016 along with two longtime collaborators, Fusae Tachibana (a hair and makeup artist) and Kaie Tada (designer for the fashion brand Triple Fortune).

Here is a link to the original interview. The translation, summarization, and paraphrasing below are mine.

For some background, ALI PROJECT has been creating music regularly since the late 1980s and has gone through many style changes over the last 30+ years, both musically and visually. Their inspirations throughout their long career align significantly with those of lolita fashion (fantasy, poetry, classical literature and art, and opera to name a few). Most lolitas probably know Takarano from the Gothic and Lolita Bible for her artsy photo shoots and modeling for Triple Fortune, Juliette et Justine, and Innocent World.

Promotional photo for ALI PROJECT's planned spring 2021 concerts | source

What caught my eye and made me want to read this interview is the title. You don't hear many people, let alone a woman in the fashion and entertainment industry, describing aging as wondrous (suteki). Allica Takarano's age and birth date don't seem to be public information but if we assume she was at least 18 years old and out of high school when ALI PROJECT began in 1985 (I think it's likely she was a little older), that means she is solidly in her 50s. I think it's a progressive and positive attitude to have, and it made me curious to know more about why she thinks this. I have translated the great majority of the interview below.

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How they met

The interview begins with discussion of how the three participants met. Tachibana has been working with Takarano since 2006. She recounts their first shoot together for ALI PROJECT's Boukoku Kakusei Catharsis single jacket photo shoot, which was particularly memorable for her because it took place at a BDSM themed love hotel.

 

Allica Takarano modeling for Triple Fortune in the Gothic and Lolita Bible vol. 37, 2010 | source

I had previously known that Takarano worked with Triple Fortune to create special, unique clothing for CD jacket images and photo shoots for her books, but nothing else. Kaie says that she and Takarano first met around the year 2010 (she does not recall exactly when), when the Gothic and Lolita Bible asked Takarano to model Triple Fortune's clothes for a shoot, and their professional relationship grew from there.

On creative processes

Interviewer: I am sure you have lots of ideas [for outfits]. How do you go about creating your visual atmospheres?

Takarano: It's definitely based in the song. There's the atmosphere of the song, of course, but since many songs are also used in anime, I also take that into consideration. First, I think on my own about what visuals to make. Then I hand over [my ideas] to Kaie...

Kaie: ...and I make them exactly as she envisions.

Takarano: Yes, she makes them for me exactly as I envision. But I make a lot of unreasonable requests, don't I? One time, I was going to have a photo shoot overseas in the desert, so I asked her to make me a reflective mirror dress.

Kaie: You did (smiles). She says 'make me a mirror dress but it has to be able to be taken apart because I'm bringing it overseas.' I thought 'Huh? A modular mirror dress?!' (smiles) There are a lot of these 'unreasonable request' challenges. (smiles) [...]

the mirror dress, 2013 | source

Interviewer: How do the two of you [Tachibana and Kaie] feel about these, could we say, 'ridiculous' orders from Allica?

Kaie: In Allica's case, she has clear visions for the atmospheres she wants to create, so contrary to what you might think, it's actually easy to work on her ideas. 'Easy to work on' and 'something that can be made' are two different things, but in general it's fun to make things for her.

Tachibana: I feel the same, like the more unreasonable the request, the hotter my creative fire burns. Also, I look forward to hearing Allica say 'wow~!'

Interviewer: How do you normally go about deciding on hair and makeup for photo shoots?

Tachibana: For Takarano's latest album A-Level Martial Law (A-kyu kaigenrei), during the wardrobe fitting, I heard her say 'for the artist photo, I want blond hair with this kind of image'. Well, blond is blond, but with this particular dress, I thought a gold toned blond might look particularly wonderful. She told me 'I want to have black and white hair in the jacket photo' but I also wanted to make it balance with the whole outfit. There have been many times lately where instead of styling the wigs beforehand, I'll bring the materials to the shoot and make them right there on the spot.

Takarano: During the jacket shoot, you were holding many bundles of white hair in your arms (smiles).

Tachibana: The makeup too is almost always decided upon the day of the shoot, with Allica describing to me the look she wants to create.

Takarano: Yes, yes. For this last shoot, I had a little trouble deciding on the visuals at first. When you hear 'martial law' military uniforms come to mind, but I had already done a shoot with a military uniform once before. I didn't want to do the same thing again. I wanted to make the people looking at it go 'oh!!' I was wondering what I should do, when Kaie casually revealed to me that she owns a lot of crowns.

Kaie: Actually, I collect crowns.

Takarano: I had just been thinking "for a queen's martial law look, a crown might be nice" and the idea just took off from there.

Tour merchandise from 2016 featuring both looks from the A-Level Martial Law jacket photos | source

Interviewer: This certainly applies to the visual atmosphere ideas you mentioned, but I get the impression that the lyrics you write also include a lot of expressions reflecting your playful spirit. Do you usually research a bunch of topics for your ideas?

Takarano: I don't do anything special. However, I feel like the things I casually do when I'm not working, like taking in the scenery, looking at pictures, reading books...those things come out of my mind when I sit down to create something. Because of that, I think I try not to just space out.

Kaie: The cool thing about Allica is that once she takes an interest in something, even if it's a department store or an art museum, her mind is always active wherever she goes.

Takarano: Ah, that's true. But I think all creators, just like the two of you who are stylists and fashion designers, are like that. Your creative expressions naturally come from the things that have accumulated inside of your mind. There are times when you can't make anything or you feel really stressed but I think that creating is the act of reaching in and bringing out the things that have collected inside.

Kaie: I often get told 'it's nice that you get to have a job doing what you love' but I also think that in doing what you love for a job, there's also the danger that you feel like rejecting it completely when you get stuck. For artists, there are many cases where their sensibilities get depleted, so in order for that not to happen, I think it's important to keep actively looking at different things and expanding our knowledge. For example, one of my friends has committed to watching 10 movies per month. You get to decide what you want to do to expand your knowledge.

On personal expression and aging

Modeling Triple Fortune's Olympia JSK in 2017 | source

 

Interviewer: Next year [2017] it will have been 25 years since your debut on a major record label. I think it's really cool that you've maintained this creative style and image the whole time. Has there ever been a time where you felt discouraged or wanted to throw it all away?

Takarano: We have been active for close to 30 years, if you count the time before our major debut. Of course, music had a much more particular structure 30 years ago, and there were plenty of times our work was not well received. But I've never wanted to give up solely because of that. We've always been of the mind that it's enough to keep doing what we want to do, and the people who like it will keep listening.

Interviewer: What is at the root of this mindset? Is it that you feel like you 'have something to say'?

Takarano: I get that a lot from people, like "what are you trying to convey?" or "did you want to get a job where you can express yourself?" But I don't really understand the whole concept of "expressing oneself".

Interviewer: What do you mean by that?

Takarano: It's not that I create things with the purpose of expressing something in particular; the act of creating is my expression. It's more that my initial thought is "I want to make something like this" and maybe someone might appreciate it later, rather than wanting to convey any particular feeling or trying to be appealing to other people.

Interviewer: I see. However, as you build a career and get older, don't you find that it gets harder to come up with new things to try? Especially with ALI PROJECT, where you have a different atmosphere for each release, I imagine it must be difficult to keep making things that improve upon your previous work.

 

Takarano: It is difficult, but if it weren't difficult there would be no point in doing it. It's boring to always do the same thing. In that sense, aging is a wondrous thing. Relatively speaking, Japan is a culture of youth. Of course there are good things about being young, but being older feels more fun and more luxurious. I often hear that one's sensibilities get weaker with age, but for me I don't think that's the case at all.

Interviewer: Do your personal experiences back that up?

 

Takarano: Yes. Beautiful things feel more beautiful to me now than when I was younger. Ugly things feel even more ugly. I feel like my sensibilities have heightened so much that it's tough to handle sometimes. For this reason, I reject the idea that aging is the end for women. But I think there are lots of women who internalize that message. For example, they think that once they hit middle age, they can't wear certain clothes, but when I travel overseas I see older women living it up. I think it's sad that Japan isn't like that too.

On collaboration and teamwork

Kaie Tada (left), Allica Takarano (center), Fusae Tachibana (right) | source

Interviewer: So not limiting oneself and continuing to grow are important strategies for the three of you continuing to work at the forefront. What other mentalities do you like to keep?

Kaie: We're the same as company employees. Just like they try to make documents easy to understand, we try to make something that someone will understand right away when they see it. However, in the sense of constantly continuing to examine your work, the responsibility is placed directly upon you.

It's fine if you're the only person responsible for the work, but for [Tachibana] and me, we have only done a small part of the work in ALI PROJECT's long history, so we are not the only people responsible for the things we have made. I want to be a professional at identifying what is being asked for and what is being conveyed.

Takarano: Certainly, each of us wants to be a professional in that regard. But there are plenty of times when one of us is having a rough time alone and the team rescues us.

Interviewer: Allica, what do you think makes a good team?

Takarano: Even though each member of the team has their own likes, dislikes, and interests, they can all set their sights on the same goal. Kaie and [Tachibana] and I each work on many different projects, but when we decide we're going to make something together and we set our sights on completion, our minds align. I think that gives us the strength to work toward our goal. Surely it's the same for teams at a company, I would think.

Interviewer: For teams of company employees, in some cases each individual can have a different role that their work fills, and it can be difficult to get all of them to have the same sense of purpose...

Kaie: If someone feels no sense of purpose at their job, I feel that it's important to make a clear division between your job as a place to collect a salary and do what's expected of you as a professional, and hobbies where you do various things to expand your knowledge. As you might expect, I think your mind would wither away if you're just mindlessly going back and forth between work and home every day. Instead of 365 days of nothing, if you do one new little thing every day, then at the end you have 365 things that you've done. When you keep building your experiences like that, when you get to be 40 or 50 years old your life will be completely different, I think.

On ALI PROJECT's future directions

'Fantasia' album cover, 2019 | source

Interviewer: You're absolutely right. Well, we've come to the end of our interview. Please tell us more about your upcoming plans for ALI PROJECT.

Takarano: We still want to keep going and going. We've made an album every year since we started. We have some tough times in the middle of making albums, and sometimes I wonder "why are we breaking our backs working so hard to put out an album every year?" But the moment it's finished, I start getting ideas about what I want to make next year. We just finished making A-Level Martial Law, our album for this year, but I already have plans for next year. It might be a little plain in the visuals department, though...

Kaie: You'll do fine. I've heard you worry about that a number of times but it hasn't ever happened. (smiles)

Takarano: You're right (smiles). I may come up with more ideas right up until we actually start making it. I talked about this with [Tachibana] too, but I'm thinking "butterflies" for the next one. We've done that theme before with the album Les Papillons (2011) but it was just flying butterflies printed on the front jacket.

Tachibana: Right. So this time, Allica told me she wants to be a butterfly.

Kaie: You mean, like, Allica's body will be the butterfly's body? (smiles)

Takarano: For example, my dress could be made of butterfly wings, and I could come out of a cocoon...

 

Kaie: A cocoon...! 

Takarano: I want it to be beautiful, but something where people who don't like it will hate it enough to say something. A butterfly so beautiful that it's disgusting. Oh, butterfly wings for ears might be neat.

Kaie: She's always like this, throwing out ideas as they come to mind. Then [Tachibana] and I go home and think "what are we gonna do about her?" (smiles)

Takarano: I've done a lot of different things already, but I still think "I haven't done this yet, I haven't done that yet either." I don't think I'll ever run out of ideas.

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Some personal reactions

The lolita community has always been preoccupied with aging in the fashion. We collectively seem to have relaxed our ideas a little bit in recent years, but it still feels like every other week someone posts in the big online groups asking what age is too old to wear lolita. People seem to keep wanting to arrive at a nice round number, or at least a fast and easy and definitive answer, but there just isn't one.

 

We've already pretty much established that traditional societal gender roles/norms and random strangers' opinions about how people should dress shouldn't be important in our circle -- after all, for most people the act of wearing lolita is a rejection of societal expectations. With that said, I suppose the short answer is "the age you are when it doesn't make you happy anymore". But wrapped up in that is a much more complex question, because the answer is different for everyone: what about wearing lolita makes you happy?

 

I think a big thing that feeds into that is: why do you wear lolita and for whom do you wear it? Is the joy you feel for it primarily from external sources or does it come from within? Of course, no matter who you are, it feels good when other people pay attention to your outfits and compliment them. What you want from lolita and how your personal priorities and tastes change as you get older help to determine whether you grow with lolita or grow out of it. If you like wearing lolita because you like the attention it gets you from other people, then it's no wonder you might want to quit when the community and society at large stops paying you positive attention. If you like it because of the friends you meet through it, you might feel like quitting when your friends lose interest. If what you like most about lolita fashion is the aesthetic and the creative process of putting together outfits and figuring out the personal style that reflects you best, you're likely going to stick with it for longer.

 

I like Allica's mindset about her creative work: that she's doing it because the act of getting her creative ideas out into the world makes her feel fulfilled in life. The attention she gets for her creative works is of lesser concern. If you spend all your time chasing the approval of others, you're probably not going to be very happy in life because at the end of the day, you're not any closer to knowing yourself. Knowing yourself makes it easier to know what you want from life, to align your actions with what you want, and to live your life in a way that makes you happy.

 

Society and popular media certainly push the joys of being married and having a family and children as the biggest positive aspects of getting older, but I think there are plenty more positives that get less attention. As someone who is well into their 30s, I agree that being older feels more luxurious. I have a much better idea of who I am, what I like, and what I stand for. Because of that, I am the most confident I have ever been. In general, I'm more financially stable and have more money to spend on fun things than before. The people who are still drawn to you when you're not young and beautiful by society's standards tend to be higher quality and more genuine, and the extra life experience makes it easier to identify and keep close the people who will make your life better, and you waste less time and energy on the ones who don't. Like Allica, I feel my feelings more intensely now that I've had that much more life experience. There's so much to like about being older that no one told me about, and I don't think those things should be a secret, especially with the general anxiety many people feel about aging.

 

I also agree with Allica and Kaie that keeping your mind active is important to keep your creative thoughts flowing and to avoid burnout, especially if your career involves creative work. I personally am not trying to make a career out of being creative, but multiple people in my life that are (friends in the music and video game industries) have previously said that inspiration for their work regularly comes from completely unrelated things that are rooted in their individual hobbies and life experiences, outside of their work and field of expertise. I too feel this when I am putting together a coordinate. People with significantly different life experiences may not understand where your idea comes from, but they can still appreciate the final look, and it may inspire their mind to create something they hadn't thought of before. For me, this is why I participate in the online community. I encounter a far wider variety of people than I would in person, all people who appreciate a particular hobby but approach it from so many different angles, and the ones that resonate and inspire push my creativity in new directions. I hope that placing my own ideas in that common space does the same for other people, too.

 

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